The Business Of Storytelling

Shane Currey  00:03

As humans, we think in narratives. It's the way that we understand the world around us, especially in the workplace. But if you don't design your narrative, they will design it for you. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  00:15

Storytelling has been a real buzzword in business, especially over the last decade, and there's a reason for that. How you craft and communicate the narrative of your organisation dictates not only how consumers interact with it, but also your staff. Shane Curry, the founder of consultancy group Prime Collective Australia, says when customers are making purchasing decisions, what they're really buying is a company's story. A designer handbag, for example, without the company effectively communicating a narrative of luxury and quality, would just be a handbag. And when we look at employees instead of consumers, even though they mightn't be making a purchase per se, they're still choosing whether or not to buy in based on what's being communicated to them from the higher-ups.

Shane Currey  01:04

You can see when a narrative goes wrong. You start having silos in a business, you start having people who will deliberately go against a particular strategic direction, you will have this kind of unhealthy competitiveness emerge in a business, and I think that's just because they haven't designed the narrative.

Dr Juliet Bourke  01:36

This is The Business Of a podcast from the UNSW Business School. I'm Dr Juliet Bourke, a Professor of Practice in the School of Management and Governance. So Shane, people might have heard about storytelling in business, but a lot of your work starts with clarifying a company or a brand's narrative. What's the purpose of a narrative as opposed to a story?

Shane Currey  01:59

The way I usually define the difference is a narrative has no beginning or end, it's constantly evolving, and it's usually about people, potential or participation. And I think when you look at a narrative, it's usually grounded in a single, unifying idea. Now on the flip side, a story is about actions and plots. It has a beginning, a middle and an end. And in business, what we do is go around telling stories. We don't go around telling narratives. So the narrative is implied in the story. I'll give you a big example, you could take a country like the United States of America and you could say that they support a narrative around freedom. And then their stories are told that reinforce that, from people like Trump, Obama, Hollywood, they're all producing stories that kind of reinforce this idea of freedom. Even though it's not said, it's sort of implied in the stories that they tell. So if you take that concept and look at it in business, when I walk into an organisation and see a room full of executives, I see a room of all different stories being told by each different executive. But is there a unifying idea that stitches the stories together? If I was to ask the market or the people inside their organisation what do they think the narrative is that they're trying to create, I could probably get lots and lots of different answers. Or I could get a kind of consistent answer, which would tell me that they're much more deliberate in the way that they've gone about their storytelling. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  03:46

Is there a brand that comes to mind when you think of deliberate and effective storytelling?

Shane Currey  03:52

I think another interesting one, which I think is in popular culture, is the brand of Apple, and I think it has a very, very interesting narrative in terms of it has a single, unifying idea around, sort of, creativity. It's there to sort of unleash your creativity. You feel it when you buy into the broad product suite of Apple. That manifests itself in its stories, right? The way they share stories with you - and photography is a really interesting one - is it's not only the storytelling, but it's in the product too. They've invested in this unleashing the photographer within you. And I think that was the very beginning of Apple's kind of narrative around creativity and using stories to reinforce that. And I think they constantly do it still today. You talk about enduring narratives, I think there's a very pervasive one in Apple around creativity. I think a narrative is very interesting because it's a pull strategy, not a push. And so what Apple is doing it's inviting you to be more creative.

Dr Juliet Bourke  05:09

Apple is one of the most recognisable brands in the world. Like Shane says, when you hear their name, you think about creativity. But how did they embed that message in the minds of customers?

Barney Tan  05:21

Apple has consistently crafted compelling brand narratives that resonate emotionally with consumers, then this shapes public perception and forces a deeper connection with the brand.

Dr Juliet Bourke  05:31

That's Barney Tan. He's the Head of School and a Professor at the School of Information Systems and Technology Management at the UNSW Business School. Barney credits three key products from Apple that cemented their brand narrative over the years.

Barney Tan  05:46

The most notable would be way back in 1984 for its Super Bowl commercial introducing the Macintosh. Apple basically positioned itself as a revolutionary force - it's this fresh, dynamic figure that is standing up against conformity and an authoritarian regime. So the commercial depicted the dystopian society that was reminiscent of George Orwell's 1984 and Apple was basically throwing a hammer at a screen, casting itself as the liberator of individuality and creativity. So the ad was groundbreaking. I think it was directed by Ridley Scott. It had cinematic quality. It had a very bold messaging, and by leveraging a well known literary work, Apple created a powerful metaphor for its mission to disrupt the status quo. And it resonated. So what this led to was a great emotional connection, it had an impression that was sort of seared in the minds of the audience, and it generated immense buzz. So this really showcased the impact of innovative storytelling and advertising. Another example that Apple has crafted in the past was the introduction of the iPod, when Apple basically revolutionised the personal music consumption industry by offering a device that could hold an entire music library. So the tagline was '1000 songs in your pocket', which succinctly communicated the iPods groundbreaking storage capacity and portability. So the messaging was innovative at the time in its simplicity and user centric focus. So instead of highlighting technical specifications like megabytes or gigabytes, Apple translated the feature into a tangible benefit, a tangible thing that users can understand and would value. So this made the technology accessible and appealing, and this also emphasised actually personal freedom and the joy of having music on the go. So the accompanying visuals that often accompanied iPod ads would feature silhouettes dancing with the headphones, which reinforced, again, the themes of individuality and really a sense of living in the moment. So another famous apple campaign was the get a Mac campaign that went on from 2006 to about 2009, and basically what happened during the campaign was in the ads Apple personified Mac and PC as two characters. So the Mac character was portrayed as someone who's young, casual and creative, while the PC was depicted as someone who's older formal and, you know, a little bit cumbersome, a little bit perhaps old fashioned. And this series of humorous ads where the Mac character will be interacting with the PC character was basically there to highlight the Mac's ease of use, reliability and compatibility with creative tasks. So what happened with that brand narrative was that Apple wanted the audience to connect with the younger, the more casual, the more creative persona. And by using character driven storytelling like this, right, Apple actually made technical comparisons really accessible and entertaining. So I think much of Apple's success can be attributed to the fact that they had these compelling brand narratives that allowed them to dislodge the existing leaders of the industry at the time, to become a market leader themselves.

Dr Juliet Bourke  09:15

What does a good storyteller look like for you?

Shane Currey  09:18

Look I think a good storyteller is someone who understands the audience 100%. They've taken the time to understand what's important to the people they're talking to and they adjust their story for that audience. That would be a good storyteller. I think when it comes to narrative strategy and an executive that's good at that, that is about clarity. They are 100% sure on the single, unifying idea that they're trying to communicate or coalesce people around.

Dr Juliet Bourke  09:51

What are the elements of storytelling? 

Shane Currey  09:54

There's never any shortage of content. What I always find the issue is is how you structure the content. That's the biggest sore point that I would see. And I think within that, so if I was to look at a particular story structure, I always say that you need to start by orientating your audience, help them find a frame. Because what most leaders do is they walk into a room and they've been thinking about their story for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and the people in the audience have their own job and have their own lives, and so they tend to jump in too quickly. And I always say, just get the audience in the mood for your story. How are you going to just bring them into the room? I think that's a really important part that people often miss. The other tactic, I think is also incredibly... I've seen it used really successfully, is empathise with the audience. Tell them what you think they're thinking. Be an empathic storyteller. Start with them instead of starting with you. I think you instantly get them on your side. I also think there's, in storytelling in business in particular, is we have a culture in business where you get paid a salary to, in some way, provide the answer. So we create these stories that provide the answer and the solution, but they tend to miss any kind of tension or conflict or doubt in the storytelling, and that makes for very boring stories. And I'm sure all of us know what it feels like to sit in a presentation at work where it's incredibly boring. And I think what's missing in that is the tension. I think it takes courage - you need to be brave to call out maybe the elephant in the room, but that's what will make your story interesting. It's the tension you bring into the story. But most importantly, in business, how do you back it up with a way forward? And so there's two things we do well in business in storytelling, one is evidence and data, and the other one is the plan. We're very good at gantt charts and mapping things out, but the missing pieces there, I think, are the tension. Make sure you bring that into your story. Warm them up. Use a bit of empathy, and I guarantee you'll be engaging an audience in a very different way just with those few extra ingredients. I think it would change your storytelling.

Dr Juliet Bourke  12:40

So have you got an architecture in your mind as to how stories develop in the world, how they're presented in the world? 

Shane Currey  12:49

Sure, like, I think there's three fundamental story architectures that I use. The first one, which is, let's say, the most common, the most versatile, is what I call 'the journey'. There's six parts to that architecture. So one is orientating your audience, finding the frame. Empathise with your audience. It is about showing evidence and data. It's obviously about tension. The plan and the approach, and then obviously the invitation at the end. Always important to make sure you crystallise the takeaway from the story. That I think is the most versatile story architecture that I use. I think when you start to move into industry groups like health or education or government, I have a story architecture which I call 'the dream'. And that's where you start with the why, the values and the purpose. That'll be incredibly important to an audience that works in this kind of space. And then you go into the what and then the how. That is a very common story framework. People here may have heard of it from Simon Sinek 'Start With Why'. And then the third one is 'the skeptic', and it's a much more complicated and nuanced story architecture. But I think all of us know what it feels like to be sitting opposite somebody with their arms folded and they are already skeptical of what you have to say. And I think what's super important with that particular architecture is you start with something that they care about. If you start with something that doesn't quite hit the nail on the head for them, you will lose them immediately. So I always say, sort of, make me care. The next thing with a skeptic, I think, is show them something new. If you don't have anything new to share don't go, because you will lose them. So make me care, show me something new. And then the last step on that one, as I say, make me feel a little bit uncomfortable. Raise the stakes at the end, make sure you give them a kind of what's to lose. I think that's how you kind of cut through with someone who is really time poor, not particularly interested in what you have to say. I think with those three tactics in story, the way you range your content, I think would be a much better way to cut through. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  15:30

Can you give an example of that where you've used that skeptic framework with an audience? 

Shane Currey  15:35

When you're in the space of business development, you've got to get this job over the line, that is where I use that one the most - in business development. And I think because when someone puts a tender out lots of other businesses are putting their wares forward in front of them, right? So I think it's incredibly important to really cut to the chase when you're in a highly competitive environment, I think that's where you need to use the skeptic. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  16:06

As like a differentiator? Everyone else is just doing the journey or the dream...

Shane Currey  16:11

The journey and the dream, I think, is applied to storytelling on a day to day basis, internal or external. But I think when you're trying to get something over the line, a signature, that requires a very different style of storytelling. The pointy end, I'd say, of storytelling. It needs to be clear, it needs to be sharp, and it needs to be to the point.

Dr Juliet Bourke  16:37

So you mentioned Shane in crafting a narrative, it's about people, participation and potential. Can you just deepen those a bit? Why do you think about it like that?

Shane Currey  16:49

There are three lines of inquiry that I usually would take when developing a narrative. I think they cover the fundamental grounds of which a narrative is constructed. And what I mean by that is, when I talk about people I look for the deeper human truth - what is that common ground that we all understand in this particular narrative? And then I look at the potential or a burning ambition or the opportunity. The thing is with narratives you can base a narrative on a burning platform. They can be quite effective, but they're not enduring, and history will tell you a narrative built on negativity and fear never lasts. The most enduring ones in history are based on ambition and opportunity and potential. So that's another line of inquiry -  asking questions about what is this for? Why are we doing it? What's the prize? And then the last one is around participation. This is particularly useful in business transformation or change. What are you asking people to do? Because most of the time, people understand the strategy - they intellectually comprehend and high five you and go, 'Great work. You've put lots of thought into it, and a whole lot of smart people have crafted this strategy and direction.' But to the average person, what do you want me to do with that? What are you asking me to do? I think that's an incredibly important question to ask, which often just goes completely missed. So participation is fundamental, I always make sure I get clarity on what is it that we're asking people to do? What are you asking them to participate in?

Dr Juliet Bourke  18:05

Do you think that leaders understand narrative or do you think that they get caught up in storytelling?

Shane Currey  18:57

They certainly get lost in their own story. And I think some people have an innate ability to tell stories through a kind of framework of a narrative, but I don't think it's deliberate. I think they just happen to have that skill innately. And some other executives, I think are not so good at that.

Dr Juliet Bourke  19:19

But why is it so important for them to invest time in a narrative strategy and ensuring their storytelling is unified? What's the outcome if they don't?

Shane Currey  19:30

As humans, we think in narratives. It's the way that we understand the world around us, especially in the workplace, we probably overthink it. But if you don't design your narrative, they will design it for you. I think that is the fundamental moment when you realise that as a leader you've just been letting this narrative naturally unfold and evolve without any intervention. I think that's incredibly dangerous territory. Because you can see when a narrative goes wrong - you start having silos in a business, you start having people who will deliberately go against a particular strategic direction, you'll have this kind of unhealthy competitiveness emerge in a business. And I think that's just because they haven't designed the narrative. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  20:26

I think you can see people losing their way as well when there isn't a single narrative for everyone to sort of rally around. 

Shane Currey  20:34

And everyone's got like an arrow on top of their head in some way, and I think what a narrative does is it just points the arrow in the similar direction. When you don't have that deliberate kind of hold and intention behind the narrative, I think the arrows all go in different directions and that just slows performance down.

Dr Juliet Bourke  20:58

Okay Shane, so we've laid out what good and bad storytelling and narrative can look like, and also how to do it well. But this is where it gets tricky, because within one organisation there can be multiple narratives. Do you want to explain the concept of nesting narratives?

Shane Currey  21:16

The nesting narratives is actually really important when you're working within a large organisation, because you have different layers that need different narratives. And I think the higher up you go is when you start to move into the territory of purpose, organisational purpose, and the narrative there is kind of enduring but they have nesting narratives underneath, and that's a complex communication ecosystem. What's more important isn't the complexity but how each narrative cascades into the other. And that's what I find when I work with organisations, they find that process incredibly cathartic. Because no one's actually stitched together how these narratives nest together, and I think that would be well worth the effort in understanding the connectedness of each of them. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  21:16

Can you give an example? 

Shane Currey  21:20

So I've worked with one of the big four banks, within their risk function, and you could imagine in the large... one of Australia's largest banks, it's an incredibly complex layering of communications. Some of the largest workforces in Australia. So when you start to cascade, I think it was about eight layers where I'd sort of come down to in terms of how I connected each of the narratives together eight time. Eight layers deep. That's quite significant. And this is, I think, the challenge is that you put yourself in the shoes of an employee and it has so many different narratives that are in conflict sometimes. But what's more important isn't... like I say, it isn't how many layers so much, it's are you explaining to the workforce how these reinforce each other as you go down? That I think is the critical, I think, missing part in communication strategies where they haven't really stitched together the various different areas of the business together. 

Dr Juliet Bourke  23:29

Can you give an example of two conflicting narratives that you might hear at the same time and in the same organisation?

Shane Currey  23:37

That's a really good question. So, especially in, I think, work in the 21st century - our workplace is full of paradoxes. So you'll have one department running a narrative around you have to be 'the technologist', and then you've got another department telling you you've got to be 'the humanist'. So they're conflicting narratives, they're tensions in a business. You could look at a particular industry group like insurance, where you have a highly regulated business - they have to meet certain legislative commitments and expectations as a business - and then you've got a business that's being transformed by technology. So they're looking at this agile, fast paced, you know, expectations of the workforce to meet customer demands. So again, they're two very different... that's like Prometheus and Socrates. If you look at the sort of mythology in terms of there's a part of the business that sounds like Prometheus - they want to bring the fire from the heavens, they want creative thinking and new ideas. And then you have this sort of Socratic thinking of pragmatism and responsibility and ethics. These are two very different narratives that are being crafted. These are in conflict in ways. So I think good narratives make the connection. They show you how these things can work together.

Dr Juliet Bourke  25:17

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